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Astral projection and The Matrix

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    0megaZer0

    0megaZer0 Senior Citizen

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    Randomly I wondered, could you astral/etheric project out of the Matrix? I mean if the machines didn't have reason to believe that would be possible they probably wouldn't have put in any safe guards against it or written it out of the Matrix world. Additionally, someone would have to have tried it out of curiosity. Do you think it would work and that person would see the real world, or would the fact that they are already in VR effect them?
     
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    Obscurus
    Darkness

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    This assumes that astral projection is possible in the universe of The Matrix. Despite some some vague prophecies (that were more or less just mathematical predictions/certainties) there's not a lot of evidence that there's anything paranormal going on in the "real world" of that universe. Within the Matrix itself all paranormal or supernatural activity is hand-waved as programs doing something they're not supposed to be doing.

    But let's say that while jacked into the Matrix you can astral project. How would you know that the "real" world was anything other than one of infinite astral localities? Maybe you're somehow able to meet up with another projector, projecting from the "real" world and they fill you in on the whole scheme that the machines have going on. How can you trust this person? They could just be another astral entity spinning a yarn, or relating information about a universe many levels removed from your own.

    I think it's an interesting question for discussion. The whole VR angle is definitely something to wonder about. These are just some of the issues I see with using astral projection to become aware of the Matrix. These also assume that the machines don't have some kind of awareness and countermeasure for astral projection.
     
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    0megaZer0

    0megaZer0 Senior Citizen

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    I don't think that the machines would have a countermeasure in place from the beginning. After all, they (or at least their "ancestors") were designed by humans who are meant to have a similar mindset to the real world. I'm sure if someone pulled it off and found out the secret they would be silenced by agents and the machines would try to figure out what happened. The problem there is that in the movies they have a difficult time understanding spiritual matters. They don't really understand The One (well, the Oracle and Marovingian might) and Smith couldn't fathom why Neo would keep fighting even when he's clearly going to lose. I also wonder if returning to ones body would return their mind to the Matrix or if it would mimic the effects of the Red Pill.
     
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    Obscurus
    Darkness

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    I think how returning to the body would work would depend on how the VR is interacting with the mind. We know that (normally) if you die in the Matrix you die in the real world. Your mind makes it real. So what does your mind make real when you return from an astral sortie? Only one person is known to have transubstantiated, that is woken up without help from people in the real world and the red pill (i.e. Kid as shown in The Animatrix). Would it be like that? Even Kid had been in contact with Neo while he was inside the Matrix so the idea that the Matrix was an illusion was planted in his mind in a rather more direct way than astral projection.
     
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    0megaZer0

    0megaZer0 Senior Citizen

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    That's a good point. Honestly it's been years since I've seen the Animatrix. It's worth noting that there's a limit to what the mind can translate into reality, hence why people fresh out of the Matrix have under developed muscles and senses.
     
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    Mouseroot
    Veggedout

    Mouseroot Senior Citizen
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    This is a bit of a toss up for me because in a sense the whole jacking into the matrix is the etheric projection (the body cannot survive without a mind) is a parallel to the life here on earth.

    Having said that there is a lot of spiritual overtones in the trilogy, mostly about faith and courage and a lot of messages about the self, the thing is tho...I think that only the original cast were the only ones who were close enough to any enlightenment to make use or even begin to know what paranormal skills they would have, much less being able to calm the mind enough to use them (war of the machines, constant stress and etc)

    Now my final point, when they are jacked into the matrix, you notice that as Morpheus said you become your residual you(or your mental representation of yourself) so I would assume that if you reached a level of mental clarity to jack into the matrix with a very focused will and mind, you should be able to...because remember also the matrix is just the system and rules can be bent and broken(like neo can fly, others cant because hes the one, but the one is just the one who a high enough level of understanding to overcome the system)

    And furthermore if you look at the "Ghost" villains from the Merovingian, you can also kinda see what im talking about, although I believe it was referenced that they used illegal programs and mods to allow that (possibly constructs?)

    And really the whole trilogy is in a sense an modern allegory and it is one of those movies that kinda covers everything, meshes technology with self in a way thats like the old school kung fo movies that taught you about real life lessons.
     
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